*smirks a bit*

[ssurgul]

Well, isn't that fun.

A quote from "Woof! Perspectives into the Erotic Care & Training of the Human Dog" which quoted Jay Wiseman's "SM 101":

What does it mean to humiliate somebody? Basically, it means to reduce them in status, usually in an embarrassing or mortifying way. Key point: Humiliation is mainly a state of mind. For an experience to be humiliating, a slave must consider it humiliating.

I'm so strongly reminded of a conversation I had with one of Fuckhead's friends, while we were together. This friend had decided that I was a completely irresponsible Master because I had 'humiliated' the slave, by referring to him in the pet name assigned, 'Little girl'. Well this friend didn't like it, decided that it was totally humiliating, and was only too happy to be vocal about how irresponsible I was at the time, simply because he didn't like the situation himself. On talking with Fuckhead about it, he said specifically that he was honestly confused why that was the case as he didn't consider it humiliating in the slightest. It's what he was, he knew that (at the time) I loved him and that the name was one of a certain intimacy.

The lesson? That the bulk of furries really have zero clue what legitimate BDSM is. Which is why so many of them never make it in the non-furry BDSM community. And why they're so mocked in general, from BDSM'ers. When you don't get something, and you try and ascribe a false belief to it, and then reinforce your mis-belief with lies, gossip and childish behavior it doesn't show you're mature, strong, or right. Further, it will certainly be great to hear final confirmation that by now, Fuckhead's views have gone 180 degrees and now he's almost certain to be holding me accountable to 'humiliating' him nonconsentually with such terms, simply because all his 'friends' have ego-stroked him into believing that what he said wasn't what he said, and what 'really' happened was what they want to have happened rather than any sort of reality.

Comments

[prio.livejournal.com]

"The lesson? That the bulk of furries really have zero clue what legitimate BDSM is."

Uh, pretty broad "lesson" to take away from one incident.

[ssurgul.livejournal.com]

Actually, from my experience, that was only one in a very, very, very long series of situations that only reinforced that lesson. I never base an opinion on one happening only, particularly not one with as far reaching an implication as that.

[chris-sawyer.livejournal.com]

Just sort of on the same lines, I really don't see how a true slave situation could be realized. In that the slave is "humiliated."

Because, the slave wants to be there.

It seems like you would have to grab somebody, and force them to be your slave. Or, like if an older brother was hanging out with his freinds, and he grabbed the younger brother, and forced him to do humiliating things against his will. (Or just spoke to him in huliliating ways in front of his friends.)

What is your take?

[ssurgul.livejournal.com]

Not really, to me. Just because the person is a slave, they can't truly check their feelings at the door, no matter how much they might claim they want to do so. Even slaves who are all for abdicating all their rights and such have internal triggers and buttons that make them react negatively to certain stimulii.

I had one potential slave that absolutely refused to stand for being referred to by anything to do feminine pronouns or references. Period. He stated it was a hard limit. Consequently, if I did do so, which would have been irresponsible of me to say the least, he would certainly have been humiliated by that.

Yes, they're asking to be in that situation, but even slaves have hard, irremovable limits, whether they're physical, emotional, mental, physiological or some combination. And those have to be respected.

[twigmouse.livejournal.com]

"legitimate BDSM"? Isn't that an oxymoron? Who says what is legitimate and what isn't? Sure there are different "levels", but it's only as legitimate as those involved feel it is. IMO.

[ssurgul.livejournal.com]

In some ways, I wholly agree. Whatever the two partners concur is appropriate for the situation they're in is what would constitute their BDSM relationship.

No, what I mean is more a function of method and style than of the agreements necessarily. All too often I have seen "submissives" go above and beyond the 'pushy bottom' definition into the realms of being emotionally abusive. Sure this happens in non-furry BDSM, but strangely, furry BDSM is about the only situation wherein these people are not only coddled and encouraged to be this way, but are actively believed even in the light of contradictory evidence. It is the only BDSM community I'm aware of wherein things like 'If you want to say anything about my opinions (posted in a public forum without security locks), you have to ask and clear it with me first!' are taken as positive, proper things to believe, and the submissive doing so is immediately granted all 'right' in that situation, no matter how psychotic the behavior.

I've been active with several non-furry BDSM groups. This sort of thing is pointed out and exposed by Doms and subs alike as being both bullshit, and unacceptable. This is what I mean by legitimate. Not that furries can't form legitimate BDSM relationships so long as the communication, negotiation and follow through is all met. Rather that furries as a whole (and yes, of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but in my experience a good 98% of the furry community behaves this way so a rule has been made even external to the community) operate in ways that have little to do with personal responsibility and do everything possible to vilify and abuse Dominants and remove the so-called Tops Rights at just about every turn.

[tsear.livejournal.com]

What's a Fuckhead?

[ssurgul.livejournal.com]

Fuckhead is the affectionate nickname I refer to the ex as. After he lied, repeatedly, emotionally abused the relationship we had, kept bilking me for more and more cash that ended up totalling nearly $30K when it was all said and done, and then blamed me for everything that went wrong with everything, whether it was because I did everything right, or did everything wrong, he earned that name. Yes, it's crude, yes it's crass. But I occasionally check up on him, and to this day he continues to have no job, sleep his way around the country, and strives for pretty much zero personal responsibility as a citizen or as a person. So, I really have no qualms about referring to him thusly.

[tsear.livejournal.com]

So he's more or less your average furry then?

And I can get the disconnection from reality thing. My room mate has done the same thing through conversion to insane religion, squandering of money and inability to form ay sort of sane relationship. Oh, and lacking any idea of what a sane relationship is.

[mikecoyote.livejournal.com]

wait a sec.... furries..... divorced from reality?! I don't believe it!


no but seriously, as a general rule, so many furries love to blame others for their own problems. I mean if you are already imagining that to some extent you really ARE part lion, how hard is it to imagine that people who love you are abusing you? I think this is part of why furries gather together and support each others craziness. they need to have their egos and self esteems stoked at EVERY chance, and anything that dosent stoke the ego is wrong. far easier to see something outside of you as wrong and bad, than to realize you might need to do like Michael Jackson and take a look at the man in the mirror, and ask him the make a change.

of course I don't want to just blanketly say that all furries are like this 100% of the time, but it IS the reason I'm more elusive, and why I tend to be fairly choosy about who I get intimately close to.

[ssurgul.livejournal.com]

wait a sec.... furries..... divorced from reality?! I don't believe it! I know it!! It's a stunning revelation from the Prince of Darkness!!

But yes, I know. I know. And it has taken me quite a long while to get to the point of simply holding as a rule that furries simply aren't worth the time of trying to hold solid, meaningful, interpersonal relationships with. Of couse there are exceptions on a one-for-one basis, and I enjoy them quite a lot. But overall, what you've said is dead on, and it's simply not worth the frustration, pain and hassle to deal with nowadays.